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Q & A with John Taylor Gatto
Ode talks with John Taylor Gatto, an ex-New York City schoolteacher and author of five anti-public schooling books, including Weapons of Mass Instruction: A Schoolteacher's Journey through the Dark World of Compulsory Schooling
How did your teaching career get started?
“I was in between jobs as an advertisement copywriter at the time. Since I had no job and no way to pay my rent, I stole my friend’s teaching license, which fortunately had no picture on it. For a few days I illegally taught as a substitute teacher. Being there though, I became enraged at the American schooling system, so I stuck around for a bit longer to learn more about it. Then after a couple of weeks, I decided I would stay being a teacher until I wasn’t learning anymore. That happened to be almost 30 years later.”
That’s a long time to be in a profession that you say is detrimental to young people. What did you hate so much about the school system?
“The schooling system in the United States is intensely boring. No one wants it to be this way, but it’s built into the structure of the business. Students and teachers, superintendents and principles—they’re trapped inside this structure that’s subject driven, while nothing in life is subject driven. I absolutely hated and couldn’t believe this system where every 43 minutes a little bell rings and that’s that. No questions asked. Students had to stop the learning they finally were getting, so that they could move onto the next thing. It’s ridiculous.”
How did it become this way?
“It’s because school isn’t about intellectual development. It’s about obedience. Now I can say with full certainty that the idea of teaching as it is in the United States is appalling to me.”
What are other failures of the school system?
“Standardized testing. They lead to no real information about the student, and actually give them a false ranking. It says people are better or worse than others. Seriously, have you ever gone to a job interview and asked the person interviewing you, “What did you get on your standardized test?” They’d be floored. Parents don’t go up to the teachers who hand out these stupid things and ask what they got on their tests either, because they don’t matter.”
So why do standardized tests exist?
“They measure memory. If you want to learn how to load a gun blindfolded the best thing is schooling because it’s all about memorization and obeying. Obey. Obey. Obey. It’s drilled into their heads.”
Why did you finally leave?
“What pushed me over the edge was an event I’ve never talked about actually. The ghetto junior high I was teaching at in New York City was going to lose 12 teaching spots for some reason, and I successfully lobbied to get them back. But in the fall of 1991, when I came back to teach I found I had only one class to teach. I was offended, especially after I had won three [New York City] Teacher of the Year awards [in 1989, 1990, and 1991, and one New York State Teacher of the Year in 1991], that they would only give me one class. It’s kind of stupid to get up in the morning to do nothing all day except for teaching one class. A lot of people think having nothing to do is the pinnacle of the profession, a problem in itself. So, in all that free time that semester, I decided to write my letter of resignation. I sent it to the Wall Street Journal, and they sat on it until I actually quit. Then they printed it.”
Is there anything good about U.S. schools?
“School is good because it does aim to create good moral people. It aims to create good citizens arguing in the public marketplace of ideas. It works if each individual student has a shot to develop their personal gifts into their purpose.”
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I MUST get that book - the one captioned above your article - as I just registered, I do not recall the exact title.
A subscription offer arrived today from Ode (1 free issue, $20 for 1 year), and since I respect Alternet, I clicked over to see what it is like. You're convincing! My resources bled out in parallel with the economy, so purchases are all on hold, but you are on my waitlist.
posted by carolc on 10/ 7/2008 6:50 pm